tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post238912764620552369..comments2023-12-30T01:44:58.368-08:00Comments on The Girl with the White Parasol: Book Review: Lee Marvin Point BlankAubynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00446079492480611898noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-33150600330042335942013-03-06T16:15:03.863-08:002013-03-06T16:15:03.863-08:00Also, re the Wild Bunch, keep in mind that in a wa...Also, re the Wild Bunch, keep in mind that in a way Bunch is "really" a movie about Vietnam, which was blazing at the time it was made. Re Monty Walsh, I got bored with it about halfway through. It's a good portrait of aging working cowboys and that life. At the point I gave up on it I could find no dramatic tension to keep me engaged. Compare it's first 20 minutes to the first 20 minutes of Bunch! You've already by then seen the children burning the ants and scorpions, the shot up Bunch leaving town, probably even the dispatch by Pike of a blinded comrade who can't continue on, and Borgnine's irony about giving him a decent burial and a hymn sing. <br /><br />I have no doubt that Marvin could have starred in an alt. Bunch. Probably no one should ever attempt a remake of Bunch, however. They'd simulate the bridge scene for one thing. Fiddlin Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083633111240927563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-1012229835396695052013-03-06T08:41:17.248-08:002013-03-06T08:41:17.248-08:00Fiddlin Bill: Your comment on the sadness of Monte...Fiddlin Bill: Your comment on the sadness of <i>Monte Walsh</i> intrigued me since Epstein described it as sort of a bittersweet film. But you say that Marvin doesn't really convey that sadness, hmm. I do have to admit that I've yet to see Marvin in a role that I would describe as regretful. But I still haven't seen <i>Monte Walsh</i> or <i>The Big Red One</i> or a few of his other films, so I won't count him out just yet.<br /><br />Ivan: Even for movies I love, there's a part of me that always wants to see the alternate version. For example, I absolutely love Kim Novak in <i>Vertigo</i> and wouldn't trade her, but I have to admit curiosity about how Vera Miles would have done it. But going back to <i>The Wild Bunch</i>, I see your point about it becoming a different film. Personally, I like the "elegaic quality" in gunfighter movies since it compels some sympathy for these characters that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.Aubynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00446079492480611898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-9276788716026325042013-03-06T08:06:23.237-08:002013-03-06T08:06:23.237-08:00I would love to see an alternate universe version ...I would love to see an alternate universe version of The Wild Bunch starring Mr. Marvin--but it would be an absolutely different film as well, probably meaner, and less sentimental--with Marvin's Pike being like a aged Liberty Valance: someone who totally refuses to believe his time's running out. (But that's my speculation for today; tomorrow it will be something else...)Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16443946766217092846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-3635842405274828782013-03-06T06:02:21.158-08:002013-03-06T06:02:21.158-08:00Oh I certainly agree with you that Marvin could ha...Oh I certainly agree with you that Marvin could have done a fine job. In the Ryan role he might have brought something more even, although Ryan's role is rather small. I just really like the exhaustion and defeat that Ryan conveys. I'm not sure Marvin ever conveys exhaustion and defeat. He's wry, world-worn, but I don't sense--ever--sadness. Holden tho--that's the greatest role of his wonderful career. I guess that's why I made the comment. There's no doubt Marvin could have done his surely excellent interpretation of any of the main roles in Wild Bunch. I'm just asserting that his interpretation would not "top" Holden, who would really be the only role in the sense in which this idea that he could be in Bunch is made. As a character actor he could have done the Borgnine role easily, but again, possibly not with that element of sadness. <br /><br />There's a quality of elegy in the Wild Bunch. They all know for most of the movie that they are walking into their doom. The moment when they decide "this is it" and walk back into Mapache's camp is filled with a sense of "well, here it is, just like we figured." I didn't feel that in Monty Walsh, which is a good comparison in many ways. I'd almost say Palance has more of that sadness than Marvin. It would be interesting to think about him in Bunch. <br /><br />Anyways--I certainly agree with you that Marvin was capable of the roles in a broad sense. But I (personally) think Bunch is one of the top 5 or 10 films of all time, and a lot of that has to do with the particular actors. And of course the other part is Peckinpah. Who knows what Peckinpah might have gotten out of Marvin? I've read they encountered each other once, maybe on a TV script, and didn't get along. <br />Fiddlin Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083633111240927563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-1024615653239579802013-03-03T14:45:41.950-08:002013-03-03T14:45:41.950-08:00Fiddlin Bill: Hi, don't think I've seen yo...Fiddlin Bill: Hi, don't think I've seen you around here before so welcome. Clearly you have more knowledge on this particular genre/wave of films than I do; I can't really debate your points. Of the films you mention, I've only seen <i>The Wild Bunch</i> and I agree with you that Holden and Borgnine can't be faulted on their performances. Still, Marvin could probably have had his own take on either role and I could also see him in the Ryan part. I don't think it has to take anything away from the actors that did play the roles to imagine how Marvin might have done it.Aubynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00446079492480611898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-72201320122427100892013-03-03T07:13:23.765-08:002013-03-03T07:13:23.765-08:00While one can certainly imagine Marvin under the d...While one can certainly imagine Marvin under the direction of Pekinpah, who exactly would he have replaced in The Wild Bunch. Holden is magnificent, ditto Borgnine, and their chemistry. Ben Johnson and Warren Oates are unreplacable. Surely Marvin wouldn't have played a smaller role in the Bunch. He might have worked in Robert Ryan's role, but Ryan brings a kind of defeat which I'm not sure Marvin ever exhibited, even in Monty Walsh. I can imagine Marvin in Robard's "Cable Hogue" role pretty well, or as Garrett in Billy, or as either McQueen's father or McQueen's own role in Junior Bonnor. He could not replace McQueen in the frequently (and mistakenly) dismissed The Getaway--there McQueen has no equal. He could not replace either Oates or Kristofferson in Alfredo Garcia. He could probably replace Coburn in Cross of Iron. I cannot imagine him replacing anyone in the Wild Bunch. Fiddlin Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08083633111240927563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-82580406261644378302013-02-19T21:39:24.293-08:002013-02-19T21:39:24.293-08:00Silverscreenings: Thanks for commenting. It's ...Silverscreenings: Thanks for commenting. It's definitely worth checking out for Marvin fans.<br /><br />Ivan: My pleasure.Aubynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00446079492480611898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-38107643081743629462013-02-19T20:00:12.420-08:002013-02-19T20:00:12.420-08:00Thanks for the link! You rule!Thanks for the link! You rule!Ivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16443946766217092846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-28647007914101304952013-02-19T19:29:40.736-08:002013-02-19T19:29:40.736-08:00Sounds like a good read - thanks for the review! I...Sounds like a good read - thanks for the review! I'm going to check it out of our local library.Silver Screeningshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04955048716754142299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-30619964265564167472013-02-19T12:55:41.833-08:002013-02-19T12:55:41.833-08:00Ivan: By all means, feel free to self-promote. Wit...Ivan: By all means, feel free to self-promote. With <a href="http://lernerinternational.blogspot.com/2012/07/lie-27-alfred-hitchcocks-jaws.html" rel="nofollow">links</a>, too. The book does cover his TV work. including the <i>Dragnet</i> stint and some of the lesser-known work, like in <i>Medic</i> and <i>Studio One</i>. I'm afraid I haven't seen <i>Shack Out on 101</i> but I'll put it on my list. I don't think I've seen enough of Richard Brooks to have an opinion one way or the other. But he did manage to snag my beloved Jean Simmons which in my book earns him some coolness points. Thanks for commenting!Aubynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00446079492480611898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3193750673421600279.post-34561225304534746932013-02-19T11:29:00.028-08:002013-02-19T11:29:00.028-08:00AE: Thanks for this review; I'm a big Lee Marv...AE: Thanks for this review; I'm a big Lee Marvin fan and didn't know about this bio. Does it cover his TV work? B/c I think it's the work on shows like the first episode of Dragnet to Twilight Zone and Combat that really allowed him to stretch. I also think getting more gray in his air added gravitas, honestly. <br />BTW, have you seen Shack Out on 101? It's insane. (And bad, but worth it, like seeing Robot Monster.) And while I tend to despise Richard Brooks' films (sorry, they're like nails on a blackboard (jungle) to me), I love Marvin in The Professionals, esp. his last line, and the bits about the bandit's hat. <br />And if you'll allow me to self-promote, in my "Hitchcock's 'Jaws'" post at Lerner International, I speculate that Marvin accepts the role of Quint, since the movie will be made in Hollywood, and won't interfere with his fishing. <br />Thanks for letting me comment,<br />IvanIvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16443946766217092846noreply@blogger.com